Those big black hoses

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Those big black hoses

Postby wack137 on Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:33 am

Hello everyone,
What do you use those big black hoses on a pumper for?
Many thanks,
Ed...
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Re: Those big black hoses

Postby fenix107 on Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:36 pm

They are called hard suction. They are use for drafting, or what you could say would be sucking the water from a water source like you would use a straw in drink. It has to be thick and hard so it does not collapse under the suction.

If you don't have a positive water source like a hydrant system with pressure behind it, you have to draft. It is very common in rural areas but is needed on apparatus in case the water system fails or you run into a case where you might need it. The newer hard suction is actually opaque with rings on the inside and is so much lighter than the old stuff.
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Re: Those big black hoses

Postby wack137 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:33 am

fenix107,
Thanks for the info. Its greatly appreciated.
ED...
wack137
 


Re: Those big black hoses

Postby youngtiger1 on Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:55 am

Glad I saw this thread as I was wondering the same thing about these black hoses. So, they are rigid and will not sag on a mounting frame? I have Italeri Fire Jeep in 1/24 and it has these black hoses on the top that are replicate as two part plastic pieces. I though I should replace them with something that would look realistic and sag a little, like a garden hose, but what I read here says opposite...interesting.
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Re: Those big black hoses

Postby GLMFAA1 on Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:36 am

In reply regarding the 'sag' if you notice they are on a tray when stored on the vehicle, they are somewhat flexible and would sag if there was no support, I am not sure if the Jeep kit has trays or not. If you look back in years there were fire apparatus with the hard suction wrapped around the front of the truck making what was called a 'squirrel tail.'

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Stars at night. You see them due to the light traveling from them. What you see is the stars past. If you are seeing a star that's 6,000 yrs ago. Imagine somebody on that star looking at us. They'd be seeing us as 6,000 yrs ago. Which of those two is now?
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Re: Those big black hoses

Postby chariots of fire on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:53 pm

The black hoses are mainly used for drafting and are known as hard suction. Then there is soft suction which would be of the same size and length but which could be rolled up and stored on the hose body or in a compartment. They are used mainly as a connection to a hydrant where the water is under pressure within the mains. When using soft suction you can always tell if you are reaching capacity of the main by checking the soft suction. If it begins to flutter or go soft it means the main cannot supply any greater volume of water.
Using a hard suction would, on the other hand, remain hard and you would not be able to tell of you were reaching capacity of the main or not until the pump starts to cavitate. The risk is that trying to pull more water than the main can supply might result in a collapse of the main. And that would not be a good thing!! :o
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Re: Those big black hoses

Postby Aaronw on Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:34 pm

As Greg mentioned the hard suction hose is stiff but flexible, whether it sags or not would be dependent on how it is stored. Often it sits in a sort of channel which supports it, but if it were on a rack that just contacted the hose i a few spots you might see some sag between those points.

You also have to consider the material, the traditional smooth black hose is quite stiff, you might need 15-20 feet of hose to easily make a 90 degree bend without kinking. Some of the modern draft hose is very flexible and an 8 foot section can be formed into a complete circle. Diameter matters as well, a larger diameter hose is generally stiffer. The hose on the Jeep appears to be some kind of corrugated hose which is probably more flexible.

If you look at the photo below you can see the draft hose is supported most of its length in a channel, but the last couple of feet where it hangs over the pump panel, it droops. The engine was probably delivered with an 8 foot section and later had that replaced with a 10 foot section.

Image
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Re: Those big black hoses

Postby GLMFAA1 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:04 pm

Some references to hard suction:
1)A 24 foot semi rigid on engine
http://www.angelfire.com/sc/slfdstation2/engine321.html
2)A pre connect on side connection - scroll down to picture
http://www.fireapparatusmagazine.com/ar ... story.html
3)Old IH with hose around front of truck
https://www.flickr.com/photos/firefight ... 0508/?rb=1

enjoy the search, maybe some other ideas
greg
Stars at night. You see them due to the light traveling from them. What you see is the stars past. If you are seeing a star that's 6,000 yrs ago. Imagine somebody on that star looking at us. They'd be seeing us as 6,000 yrs ago. Which of those two is now?
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Re: Those big black hoses

Postby youngtiger1 on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:40 am

Thanks guys as your answers clarify a lot for me. I have seen several photos of the older trucks with the hard suction hose wrapping the front of the truck. I wonder why call it squirrels tail because shouldn't it be in the back for it to be a proper tail :D

Aaron, thanks for the added photo as I can clearly see the supporting tray or channel. Also, it shows things can be altered a little. As you say, 8' suction could be the original equipment for this truck when delivered but later modified to larger hose without changing it's support. ;)

Greg, thanks for the links. I love it...especially those 1929 and 39 GMC fire trucks. I would love to have them as 1/24 kits in my collection. :) Also, I didn't know they held events for such activities. I'm going to have to see when is the next Firemen's Muster near by. I'll have to visit it with my Nikkon and snap few pics :D
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Re: Those big black hoses

Postby GLMFAA1 on Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:53 am

Your welcome: some other reference and resources are
SPAAMFAA : https://www.spaamfaa.org/
IFBA: http://ifba.org/
These organization have local clubs/groups that hold musters
Check with you local fire department to see if the IAFF local participates and know where parades are held
It's a great hobby enjoy all the facets of being a 'fire buff'
greg
Stars at night. You see them due to the light traveling from them. What you see is the stars past. If you are seeing a star that's 6,000 yrs ago. Imagine somebody on that star looking at us. They'd be seeing us as 6,000 yrs ago. Which of those two is now?
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